Tuesday, February 9, 2010

Tuesday TypOHs!

previous post: Separating the Issues

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170 Comments

  1. can we have a forum or something? ‘Cos it’s pretty hard searching for debate threads whose (yay I learnt something by using lamebook again) topics I couldn’t remember and which are started in not obviously related posts. I know it sounds really dumb, but consider this as a request from a school-leaver who has too much free time.

  2. @freezit4 don’t knock it til you try it. I agree. Goats are cute. Totally fuckable

  3. @lamebookpro – Uh, no, I’m not late. I was in this conversation from the beginning. Entry #21, see? Sorry I have a life outside of Lamebook and can’t check up on the thread every 30 minutes.

    I got out of teaching. My guess is I have a higher degree than you, as well as a higher IQ. In fact, the very fact that I have to explain to you the phrase, “got out of education” demonstrates that I am smarter than you, since intelligent people know that’s what the phrase means. I’m also guessing you didn’t actually read my paragraph, since I talk about how I was a teacher. Moron.

    I see you couldn’t refute any of my points with anything other than a “STFU Stanselmdoc”. That IS the favorite retort from someone who is wrong and can’t think of any legitimate argument.

  4. STFU

  5. @ stanselmdoc – Mensa qualifications aside (which does nothing to help your argument or add to your credibility, by the way), I understand your definition of the word “respect,” but the basis of my argument is that definition of “respect” is wrong. It is not “whiny” to discuss the definition, because that is the root of the disagreement. The dictionary defines “respect” as “esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability.” All definitions of the word “respect” elevate the respected party to a higher level than neutral regard.

    Teaching kids to “respect their elders” is a principal that is incorrect because there is no reason that kids (or anyone) should hold anyone else to a higher platform than themselves. This breeds the mentality that adults or superiors always know better than they do, which results in the majority of the population being a bunch of floppy vaginas whenever they disagree with anyone. They keep quiet out of respect for their superiors. New ideas are less frequently communicated and our society progresses at a slower rate than is possible.

    A far healthier mentality is a pleasant cordiality toward new people until they prove themselves either A) worthy of respect or B) idiots. Kids should be taught to stand up for what they believe in and to speak their mind, when appropriate. Aaron’s response above may have been uncouth, but he did not say anything that should yield punishment of any kind. If he is a bright kid and unafraid to correct superiors, he will go far in life. The primary failure in parenting here lies with teaching kids to be submissive twats.

    There are numerous examples of this throughout are history. If Fred Smith, the founder of FedEx, had listened to his college professor when he first wrote about the idea, we would not have such an efficient system for sending packages today.

    If the founding fathers of the U.S. had “respected” (in your sense of the word) their superiors, we would never have declared independence from Great Britain.

    It is a healthy skepticism of authority and level of disrespect that drives progress. People should be taught to think for themselves and not just follow the rules because “thems the rules.”

  6. I think I have an excerpt of that paper Fred Smith wrote. I started of with “Fuck the current way of shipping packages.”

  7. @ stanselmdoc….oh snap! I forgot about you! If you’ve read any of my posts you’ll see that I have said on many occasions that I have no life and that I’m a loser who spends more time on lamebook than facebook. what can I say? You’re so smart! Honestly from the way you sound you were probably one of those cunt teachers and that’s why you quit. umm STFU anyway?

    @Chip : ima let you finish but UPS had one of the best ways of shipping packages ever

  8. *It started off with….

  9. Oh please, you’re being ridiculous. Disrespect breeds progress? I thought it was invention, creativity, perseverance, necessity, etc. Disrespect drives progress hahaha, my white ass. Although I agree that a level of skepticism is good. This is not the same as disrespect. You’re unreal.

    Here’s what I still don’t get: I’m not advocating (and neither is TheEyesHaveIt) for “blind respect for elders” or any such thing that you’re continually accusing us of advocating. I’m advocating for respecting everyone regardless of who they are for the sake of their humanity – until they do something to lose the respect. The only difference between you and me is that you require prerequisites to your regard, and I offer my respect freely. My regard stems from a basic love of human life. Your regard stems from the actions of those humans. The difference is fine with me, but you seem to have a problem with the fact that I would raise my kids to respect everyone no matter what.

    Teaching kids to respect elders does not breed a mentality that adults are always right – the point I’ve been making from the beginning is that adults are often wrong. The difference is in HOW the child points it out to them. You seem to be okay with a “Shut up, you’re retarded.” I think that’s ludicrous and rude and the child should be slapped across the mouth. Even when someone is wrong, they deserve respect.

    As a side note, I can’t believe you threw out the founding fathers. Really? They lived through years of abuse, took as many actions as they could without resorting to open warfare, and finally, explained the necessity of separation from England in a declaration. All one has to do is read it to find out the reality of their situation. And personally, I think they were extremely respectful toward a king who “plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.”

  10. @lamebookpro – Hahahaha. Any Kanye reference still makes me laugh. In the words of Obama, “He’s a jackass.”

  11. I realize too, after all of this, that Chip never actually considered my argument. He never actually said, “Perhaps you’re talking about a more general definition of ‘respect’ whereas I’m talking about the more specific definition of ‘holding elders in a higher regard’. Perhaps we actually believe the same thing.”
    Instead he was quite persistent with a “you are wrong and I am right” attitude. (Whenever he slightly addressed what I was saying, he was sure to back it up with a little insult.)

    How can you have progress when you’re constantly belittling and ignoring what the other viewpoint is?

  12. stanselmdoc I think you hit he nail on the head. We simply see “respect” as something earned, when you see it as something as a given.

    I don’t think either of these is wrong. I think it would mostly depend on how you were raised and your life experiences and such. I think decency is one thing. Everyone deserves basic manners from each other. (Yes that includes not saying FUCK YOU or whatever, but I swear to Zeus we’ve covered that repeatedly.) But to me, humans are way too disgusting and horrible in general and they don’t get “respect” from me until I see a good reason to give it. I am raising my daughter with that same attitude. Be polite, have manners, be caring. I don’t think those are the definition of “respect”.

    This “Aaron” guy wasn’t disrespectful. He didn’t swear, he stated what he believed to be a fact. He’s allowed to do that. He’s a HUMAN BEING. It doesn’t show manners and caring to treat someone less than simply because of their age. I don’t respect what he said though.

    Also, you think a child should be slapped across the mouth for what you see as “disrespect”…that doesn’t gain the respect that you see as so important. That is laughably backwards. “RESPECT ME CHILD OR I WILL HIT YOU UNTIL YOU DO!” wow…

  13. Fuck adults? Why not (if you are an adult yourself) I’d say.
    Fucking minors is in most countries and states of the world illegal. Or at least immoral.

  14. While I think we agree on most points, Penny Lane (who, in general, I love, by the way. I think this is the first time I disagree with something you say), my children are not yours, and I can raise them however I want. If I choose to spank or smack the mouths of my children, it’s none of your business. That said, I never said that the intent of smacking my child’s mouth was to drill respect into them – it’s to discipline them for saying something rude. I teach them respect in other ways. It is actually possible to do that, despite what current parenting philosophy says. I have the highest respect in the world for my parents and most adults, and I was smacked across the mouth when I deserved it too.

    I don’t think what Aaron said was the worst he could have said, but I don’t think it was the best either. Probably because I’m imagining his tone of voice and I can picture him being so smug and ornery I want to dig my nails into him. However, I admit that since I don’t know him, I can’t really tell if he meant to sound so snotty. Most of my anger issues with respecting people is more general. It just kills me when a customer comes up with her grandson and the grandson demands a candy bar and grandma says no and the kid (who is well over the age of tantrums) tells her she’s a bitch for not doing what he wants and runs around the store like a maniac. If his parents actually taught him to behave and have some decency/respect/whatever the fuck you want to call it, our world wouldn’t be going into a shithole right now.

    Okay, I’m done with this conversation. I’m too tired to keep arguing about something that will never matter since I’ll never meet any of you or your kids. Thanks for the brain exercise, though. It’s always nice to remind yourself of why you believe what you believe.

  15. Freakin hell.

  16. tl:dr

  17. Treating a teenager the same way you would an adult does not make you a dick, nor does it make you disrespectful.

    /argument.

    ffs.

  18. Actually, open argument again.

    I’m not singling you out, stanselmdoc, I’m just quoting this because it’s been said over and over by numerous people and this was the first example I found… “I’m advocating for respecting everyone regardless of who they are for the sake of their humanity.”

    I agree with Chip, however, I also agree with the above statement. Some may view Aaron’s comment as disrespectful and douche-y (I personally don’t), but I think what Chip is trying to say is that the fact that he said it to an adult does not make it any more or less disrespectful. If it were Mike’s teenage brother and not his mum, I doubt a lot of people would be so offended.

    Everyone should be given the same level of respect, regardless of age. So why is it so taboo to talk to an adult the way you would someone your own age? You’re treating them exactly the same, which in my opinion, means you’re showing them the same amount of respect.

  19. Fuck, I told you lot what to do in comment #102

  20. Had to take a weekend off from this discussion for a trip, but it looks like stf has summed it up perfectly.

    Well done.

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