Apparently it’s legal to shoot black people in Florida now. I know, I know, self-defense and all that. However, I know many people who’ve had broken noses, and I don’t think a single one of them was in fear for his/her life.
I was gonna make some joke about Paula Dean moving to Florida a la The Most Dangerous Game, but don’t have the energy.
if it was anything at all, it was manslaughter. DA’s first of many mistakes was going for the 2nd degree charge. And if you think with all the fucking nutjobs out there, Z-Dog is the “biggest criminal”, its clear you are one of the thousands of uninformed, race-card throwing morons lighting up social media, all apparently blissfully unaware of some of the nasty crimes going on in a given day.
@7 If some person was following me there is a chance I would also take a defensive position and I am a white, short female. Isn’t that what children are taught to do if a stranger tries to take them? Scream, fight, etc.? He became a vigilante when he continued to follow the person after being told not to and then getting out of the car. If he had followed what the dispatcher advised a young man would still be alive and he’d be at home enjoying his family instead of hoping no one else does the same to him.
1. The kid was walking down the street doing nothing whatsoever illegal.
2. Zimmerman has no legal authority and had no business carrying a firearm or ‘patrolling’ the neighborhood.
3. Zimmerman disregarded the clear instruction to stay in the car given to him by the 911 operator.
4. Any person when confronted by a complete stranger with no authority and not in any official uniform will and should attempt to defend themselves.
5. Zimmerman went out that night with the intention of killing someone, probably a black person since his racism is clearly documented.
6. Trayvon Martin was the only person in this situation who can be in any way logically defending himself. As he should have done. As any sane rational person would do when confronted by a random maniac yelling and demanding compliance.
7. Don’t live in Florida if you’re black and like wearing hoodies you’ll get shot and it’s apparently perfectly legal to shoot a child if they defend themselves when you assault them.
Friendzone, now would be a great time to produce “clear documentation” of Zimmerman’s racism and how you know he went out with the intention of killing someone.
The data the jurors heard was that Zimmerman only said the guy “looked black” when prompted by the dispatcher (though NBC doctored the 911 tape so as to make everyone, including Obama think he was guilty from day 1 – they are being sued and will probably lose, btw), and that Trayvon volunteered that a “creepy ass cracker” was following him. Which, by the way, despite your assertions, he did not need “legal authority to do so.” Neighborhood watches and conceal and carries are perfectly legal. Zimmerman didnt need the dispatcher’s OK to find out what someone was doing in his hood.
Look, it’s a total fucking tragedy – I get it. When I heard the initial headlines and soundbites I thought he was guilty as hell too. But you can’t just make a ton of shit up that has no basis in fact or the actual law and say that proves him a murderer.
I predict the civil case will go against him, as the burden of proof is much smaller.
What you Fat Tire and Americans in general seem to miss is that having the opportunity to ‘defend’ yourself with a gun may be natural to you but in more civilized countries carrying a gun would be enough to secure a sentence for murder. Your country has a sickness when it comes to gun crime and so many of you can’t even see it!
BIG DOG, on the contrary, I do get that. We have a serious gun problem here, but for the same reason France can’t get rid of foie gras, Spain can’t get rid of bullfighting, and the UK can’t seem to get rid of Spotted Dick, there is a pioneer/frontier/militia history etched into the US DNA and it’s a tall order to pass any gun control legislation.
But back to the facts: you can’t find someone guilty of murder for simply “carrying a gun” in this country, self defense is a real thing, and nobody has produced a shred of evidence that he was racist or wanted to kill a black person that night. He can’t be convicted of law you want to exist but doesn’t.
For those saying “children are taught to fight back” when confronted by a stranger need to take an honest look at both Trayvon and Zimmerman’s stature. Be sure to look at a recent photo of Trayvon, and not the one of him aged 12 that the protesters love to slap on their signs.
Sorry BIGDOG that were not as ‘enlightened’ as your shit stain of a country. See we figured out 200+ years ago that having a monarchy was unnecessary, let us know when you catch up. Meanwhile, we’re all aware that in your neck of the woods criminals are treated with kid gloves while anyone who defends themselves from rape, murder, etc. (with ANY weapon not just a gun) goes to jail. See we’re still trying to have this system where CRIMINALS are the ones punished, but I’m sure liberals in this country will quickly fix that problem. Because in liberal land, Zimmerman should’ve been defenseless and beaten into a coma, then we could’ve ignored this case and gone back to complaining how racist this country is.
BTW, if Trayvon had an OUNCE of fear of this guy, why no call to 911? You had time to call your chick and have a 10 minute conversation with her, seems odd. On the other hand, if you’re a kid who likes to ‘keep it real’ seems like what you would do if you were planning to jump Zimmerman for finding out what you were up to (since he was Neighborhood Watch captain and as everyone likes to forget the area had seen a rash of break-ins, many of the suspects matching a description like Trayvon).
And here I thought everyone in this country was brain-washed by the media. Fat Tire, I agree with you completely, and I admire your candor.
Did you know that #NoJusticeForTreyvon is trending on Twitter? There are literally thousands of people who are so ridiculously ignorant about this case that they can’t even spell the kid’s name correctly. If it’s such a tragedy and everyone is supposedly all informed, how hard is it to realize it’s spelled “Trayvon”?
The whole thing really is sad and I hate that none of us will ever know what really happened that night (just Zimmerman and God), but the fact is this was a show trial pandering to heart strings while playing very cleverly on the racial divide. A serious discussion about racism needs to happen in this country, but not at the expense of life in prison for an innocent man.
The biggest problem I have with the Stand Your Ground law is that it’s clearly applied disproportionately.
Last year, Marissa Alexander, a black woman from Florida was given 20 years in jail for firing a warning shot when she feared for her life. She had already taken out a restraining order on her estranged husband, and she feared for her own safety when he threatened her in her own home.
She has been unsuccessful in appealing her sentence under Stand Your Ground legislation.
branchman67 the monarchy is nothing more than a toothless tradition in this country and totally irrelevant to this discussion. The point I am making that you can’t get your little brain around is that using a gun against an unarmed man is a disproportionate response. A response that could only seem natural in a country with such absurd gun laws. You are well within your rights to defend yourself in this country but not with a handgun because shockingly we can’t just buy them with our groceries over here. To attack our country as being ‘liberal’ then I would prefer that label than ‘institutionally racist’ or ‘corrupt’ and justice can be given to those who wouldn’t be able to afford it in your country. As a footnote I am sure Trayvon didn’t bother to ring 911 as a black man as he had absolutely no faith in them helping out a man of his colour.
Their are multiple recordings of Zimmerman using racial epithets that were kept out of the case by a biased judge, not to mention that many people who know and have interacted with Zimmerman have attested to this fact. As a matter of fact neither you nor any other citizen who does not have the authority granted a police officer has the right to pursue or order any other citizen around. What Zimmerman was doing was harassment(illegal) and he escalated to assault(illegal) when he tried putting hands on Trayvon to hold him there illegally(kidnapping is also illegal). Trayvon had every right to then defend himself and try to get away which is exactly what he did. Martin had every right to be walking in the gated community as he was living there. Zimmerman was never in the neighborhood watch just as he was never a part of the police force despite multiple attempts to get in. In our society we teach our children to run, scream, and fight when they are assaulted by an adult, Trayvon was simply doing what any other scared teenager would do. Zimmerman knew the police were on the way, had been instructed to stay in his vehicle and disregarded both of those pieces of information, because in his pea fucking sized brain he thought he should get to be the hero and would be one by killing a black kid.
F) not bashing someone’s head against the concrete repeatedly until the person you are attacking is in such fear for his life that – even though he knows he JUST called 911 and will be inextricably tied to the retaliation – he feels his weapon is his only response.
you say “children are taught to run/scream/fight” when assaulted by an adult. Let’s pretend for a second that Trayvon was a child (he really wasn’t – 18 is not a solid barrier to behaving like an adult. There are teens much younger than Trayvon who have been tried and convicted as an adult). All evidence we have is that he neither ran or screamed – he immediately fought. The screaming on the 911 call was immediately identified by Z’s parents as Z himself. Trayvon’s parents waited until the prosecution told them they had no chance of winning unless they positively identified the blood-curdling screams as their son before doing so.
Here are some more facts for people who did not follow the trial and want to mock the idea that Trayvon was guilty of serious assault (and think by saying “a racist hunted down a poor black kid with skittles”, they are clever harbingers of social justice):
1) Trayvon had NO injuries except the bullet-hole, indicating he was not attacked first.
2) Trayvon was kicked out of school 3 times for fighting
3) Trayvon was 70 yards from his Dad’s house and chose to throttle a pudgy Hispanic’s head into concrete relentlessly rather than run inside.
4) I realize you’re all tainted by Public Enemy’s hit song, but in a gated suburb, 911 most definitely would have responded to even an anonymous call from Trayvon – who instead called his girlfriend and casually mentioned a “creepy ass cracker” was following him.
Bacchante: I will concede there are issues with stand your ground, and agree that 20 years seems excessive for that woman, but there are some key differences: Zimmerman had the gun on him and (the court agreed) was pummeled first. The woman was not attacked and went into another room to get the gun and then, the court found, fired the gun towards her husband and children. Different circumstances, but I agree, 20 years is excessive.
BIG DOG: BEEN to the UK many, many times, folks are just as if not more racist than US. Put it this way: I’ve only heard the words “darkie” and “colored” in 3 places: TV,England, and Scotland.
^ When did YOU last visit the U.S.? The general population here is nowhere near as racist as the media leads people to believe. Remember, the job of the media is to get people to watch, and in order to do that, we tend to try to make stories very sensational. Racism strikes a loud note in the hearts of most people, so highlighting it often draws people to the TV. We tend to focus on the 2% of the idiots out there, and neglect the 98% of the good, intelligent, and/or caring people out there. News is not information here, but entertainment.
We also don’t walk around with dual six-shooters and bullet belts all the time, either. We don’t shoot at everything that moves, and we can’t buy guns at the local grocery store, or even at Target (you have to go to WalMart for that). Most people in rural areas have them, but most people in urban areas do not. This is because in a rural area, the nearest police help is too far away to make it on time, and because police here won’t immediately respond to crime unless it turns violent. By that time, it’s too late.
A man awoke late a night to a noise in his detached garage. He looked out the window to see two men robbing his garage. He called 911 immediately, and the dispatcher asked if the men had entered his home. After he said no, the dispatcher told him to call back if they enter the home, and that no one was available to help right away, but an investigator would be over later. They hung up, the man waited about 45 seconds, called back and said, “Don’t worry about the two guys robbing my garage. I went out and shot them.”
Within a few minutes, his place was filled with police. As the lead officer was watching the other officers put the men in the car, he said to the homeowner, “I thought you shot these guys.” The homeowner replied, “I thought no one was available.”
#27 You must not live in the south. Seriously racism is still going strong in the south.
#25 Just cause Zimmerman intentionally put 50 pounds on to look all weak doesn’t take away from the fact that he had trained in MMA fighting and still had reach and weight on Trayvon. Their is no way Trayvon did anything but catch Zimmerman by surprise while he was struggling to get away from the crazy man attacking him. Not to even mention that ultimately Zimmerman had no legal business patrolling anywhere with a gun. Clearly from his multiple failed attempts to join the police force he had a hard on for imagining himself as a hero. Of course now they might accept him what with the two separate “suicide” cases where handcuffed suspects managed to shoot themselves in the back of police cars.
I live in the South. Racism isn’t nearly as bad as you claim. And it exists all over America, and the world.
Trayvon’s girlfriend says he threw the first punch.
No one is under any obligation to follow the orders of a 911 dispatcher.
Having MMA training doesn’t automatically ensure he could have overwhelmed Trayvon without the use of a gun.
Trayvon wasn’t an innocent little angel. Not that George is either. Each could have changed the outcome of that night.
Fat Tire, regarding your comments in # 25 about the differences between Marissa Alexander’s and George Zimmerman’s cases, I understand what you’re saying… to a point.
“Zimmerman had the gun on him and (the court agreed) was pummeled first. The woman was not attacked and went into another room to get the gun and then, the court found, fired the gun towards her husband and children. Different circumstances, but I agree, 20 years is excessive.”
1. Marissa’s husband stated that she pointed the gun at him and the children. Marissa herself stated that she pointed it at the wall and shot as a warning. I’m pretty sure that if TM had survived the altercation with GZ, there would have been conflicting testimonies regarding what happened that day too! Unfortunately, we were left with GZ’s testimony only (aside from some sketchy witness accounts that did zero to clear matters) because the only other person of interest with a first-hand account of the situation had a bullet through his heart and was unable to give ANY evidence. Whether GZ’s version of events was trustworthy is not for me to say.
2. Yes, GZ had his gun on his person, but he didn’t need to stalk Trayvon or get out of his vehicle. Being the aggressor doesn’t cast the situation in a good light for GZ at all. Certainly, Marissa probably could have just left the house, with her kids, if her husband would let her… but if I were attempting to take items (and children!) from a house that I’d previously shared with a documented violent and aggressive man, then I’d probably want to be armed too (no such luck here in Australia, but that’s beside the point). Her husband wasn’t meant to be home, so she didn’t feel the need to have the gun on her in the first place. Also, the Stand Your Ground law doesn’t actually require the person claiming self defence to retreat, so why are we expecting it of Marissa?
3. Some crusty judge determining that Marissa couldn’t possibly fear for her life because she hadn’t been attacked by her husband yet (on that particular day, anyway) is the height of male arrogance. We have no idea what he’d threatened on that day or any other, or the extent of her injuries / psychological damage that led her to place a restraining order in the first place. We can tell by looking at their different statures though, that he could easily overpower her when unarmed.
Whether the decisions reached in George Zimmerman’s and Marissa Alexander’s trials were within the letter of the law is not my issue. Firstly, the 10-20-Life law is being applied incorrectly and unjustly predominantly to persons of colour. But Stand Your Ground is obviously a poorly formed piece of legislation that allows different outcomes based on arbitrary evidence or, as I presume, on racial grounds, and it needs to be amended or repealed as a priority.
I mean, this white guy got off with the assistance of Stand Your Ground: thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/04/2095821/citing-stand-your-ground-jury-acquits-man-who-killed-wifes-lover/. And HE had shot the guy who was shtupping his wife in the back! It was clear from his police reports that he knew it was an affair, not a sexual assault upon his wife.
Lady Justice might be depicted as blindfolded, but I’m telling you, she can strike down a POC at any time, without warning, without reason. And it fucking stinks.
The ONLY reason this case has been blown out of proportions by the media is the fact that a black guy was killed by a non-black. If a white killed white, black killed black, black killed white, or any other combination, no one would have a problem with this clear case. But because “innocent black kid” was killed by ” a white racist”, it is a big deal to liberal media. Ask yourself, are you not racist against white in approaching this case like this? Would you raise all this hell if Z was black? Why are you calling him a racist? Because of the DOCTORED tape played in the media? Or only because Martin happened to be black? For Gods sake, Z mentored black kids in the neighbourhood for free, how can you call him a racist? Or will you tell me that he did this to build a cover-up story, for when he will go out and kill himself a black guy for fun? If so, Im afraid you have been brainwashed by the media for a bit too long…
Seriously? So many uninformed people all in one place together. Lets start with TM/GZ.
Stand your ground had nothing to do with what happened. The fact that anyone is talking about it goes to show exactly what’s wrong with this country. GZ didn’t use it as his defense, and it wasn’t brought up at trial.
The lady who shot her gun and got 20 years? She left, came back, and shot it. That’s not in fear for your life, period. If GZ had gotten his ass kicked and came back and shot TM, it wouldn’t have made the news beyond a blurb about a hispanic male murdering a black teen.
TM? You can see his text history, etc. Google it. Skittles and Watermelon drink (Arizona Iced Tea =/= iced tea)? + Tussin = Watermelon drank. Look at the autopsy report about his liver, which is indicative of chronic sizzurp abuse. He even admits he flips his lid and uses drank to calm himself. Too bad he never got to mix it before walking home, he’d be alive. Read the actual 911 call logs too while you’re out there instead of making shit up.
The simple fact of this case is if Zimmerman had left the kid alone he wouldn’t have been ‘assaulted’ and the kid would still be alive. It amazes me that people think shooting someone who has struck out at you is acceptable as self defense but striking out at someone who has followed you harassed you and tried to detain you isn’t. That’s the madness of a country that accepts the right to bear arms.