I hate to admit it, but Kenneth is completely correct. I usually like to point out the lies and stupidities in the arguments of people that think they know everything and go on these long rants, but everything Kenneth said is true and not made up. I’m really surprised, and applaud Kenneth for being one of the first people on this subject that I’ve seen with a rational argument. (and I see stupidity and lies from both sides)
Actually, Kenneth is not correct in everything he says. This country was not “founded by people trying to get away from a country that forced its beliefs on others.” We can assume Kenneth is referring to the original “freedom of religion”-seeking Pilgrims (who came about 150 years before the United States was founded), who were not escaping a country that forced its beliefs on them, but rather from several countries (though primarily England) that didn’t like them trying to force their beliefs on everyone else. The Pilgrims were persecution-prone assholes about their religion, and they wanted the freedom to persecute as they saw fit.
Now, all of this changed by the mid eighteenth-century, as increasing immigration and commerce made the Puritans a minority, and thus the country was founded with the principle of true freedom of religion embedded in it, but this was more a reaction to the history of Europeans in North America (i.e. the Pilgrims/Puritans themselves) than anything else. The United States certainly wasn’t founded by people who ran away from Europe due to religious persecution and set up their own country.
Second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence begins: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
At the very least they believed in a Creator… John Adams signature is at the bottom of this document for all to see.
badskey: the Declaration of Independence a) has nothing to do with the government of the United States, and b) was written to a monarch that was also the head of the Church to which the majority of the colonies belonged, at least nominally.
urbanstroller: I thought they were whiny and self-indulgent, personally.
Yes, I am aware of the uselessness of the history major. But it is a topic that really interests me. And my parents are really fucking rich, so why not? No, I’m not an occupy hippie. I bet my dad could get me a better job than “jesus” right this second.
According to Hunter Miller’s notes, “the Barlow translation is at best a poor attempt at a paraphrase or summary of the sense of the Arabic” and “Article 11 [of the Treaty of Tripoli]… does not exist at all.”
Actually, the first pilgrims who came to america outlawed christianity. you could be fined or put in jail for celebrating christmas or responding to a sneeze with “god bless you”. the first pilgrims were being persecuted, and came to the new world to ESCAPE christianity.
Technically yes Christmas was outlawed in ONE place in the settlement of Boston, Jamestown it was not.
An Outlaw Christmas
In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday.
The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.
Why would I care about being proud when I can have whatever the fuck I want? Come on, when you can have everything while also being lazy, why the fuck wouldn’t you do it? It would be stupidity to try and do shit on your own. You’re just jealous.
You’re hopeless at trolling, Evil, but you’re fantastic at endearing yourself to no one in other ways. And this thread is a good example of that. Are you really this nonchalant and entitled for real? Far out.
Actually, Kenneth is an idiot. Quoting the old testament to a Christian is one of the dumbest things an Athiest can do. Let me break it down for you. The very word CHRISTian comes from a belief that Christ died for our sins. Which negates all of the not eating meat on a tuesday, not cutting your hair, pretty much EVERYTHING in the old testament. Deuteronomy is old testament, and Kenneth is your typical “I think Im smarter than everyone” athiest.
At least Evil is honest. You people bitching about the rich person relying on family money, do you believe that in her place you would renounce the cash, and go and work your way through university mopping floors? have a word with yourself.
Reminds me of dullards telling people they studied at the school of life.
Oh, and Ms Anne, “hasn’t got the stones to be an occupier”? Yes, they are brave souls taking time out of their busy and productive schedules to set up drum circles and shit in the street. Great solution they came up with for an alternate economic model too. I had it written down somewhere…
So tribalstang, Christians don’t believe in the old testament? So they prefaced the important bit with a section they completely disagree with? They never quote from it? So Kenneth is wrong, making Cassandra right?
Tribalstang, I agree with you that some Christians are smart about the old testament, but I’m pretty sure that Cassandra didn’t get the words “abomination from hell ” from the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Spuffdaddy, We believe that the old testament was delivered by a god that could not forgive even the simplest of sins. Therefore to “save” us he sent his only son to perish for those sins. As far as Cassandra being “right”…..please. She is a fanatical Christian that forgot what Christ taught. Jesus Christ taught tolerance and love. He didn’t surround himself with rich people, he kept company with liars, beggars, theives, and whores. As for your last comment, well, you just made yourself look completely infantile and ignorant, no need for me to respond.
yeah yeah, sure Spuffdaddy. The occupier’s economic model is terrible. What we currently have is *awesome* and NO ONE should do anything about wanting to change it. Life is just fucking marvelous, the system is totes fair and going swimmingly well.
And you’re *not* an obnoxious, sanctimonious prick.
tribalstang Since you are Gods’ messenger representing all Christians here on Lamebook, could I push you for a quick apology for the last two thousand years worth of kiddy fiddling etc perpetrated by your spiritual leaders?
Gotta love these people who think that Jeebus’ dying for their sins renders the Old Testament obsolete. Um, no.
Psalm 19:7 – “The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple.”
So, in the OT, the law was perfect, but in the NT, not so much? Uh-uh. If you’re a Bible-believing Christian, you are required to believe that every word of the Bible is the revealed truth from the mouth of God. In other words, you own it: every inconvenient prohibition and every single contradiction (the Bible is riddled with them), no matter what book or what testament. There is no disclaimer at the beginning of the NT that says, “Never mind the Old Testament, it’s all bullshit anyway.”
65. Ms Anne, pretty funny, but i’m still waiting on that economic model, you smelly hippy you.
Screamin Demon, nice work, but you’ve delved too far into the book of fairy tales. Come back and channel that mind towards useful pursuits.
Cassandra is a dick. If there were no religion, she would still be spewing hate filled nonsense into the world.
#66 actually, Jesus did refute many of the old testament laws, even disobeying them himself. He taught that it is most important to obey the spirit of the law rather than the strange, individual rules set up for the Jewish people.
Like I’ve said to you before, the last time you got a decent trolling going was on your first attempt (the breastfeeding thread). But if you think your Whitney bit (amongst others) was a trolling triumph, then there isn’t a lot I can say. You’re deluded, to boot.
Feral Musings seriously? has it never occurred to you that anyone who thinks they are having a ‘serious’ debate about religion – on bloody lamebook – is full of crap by definition?
you are skating on some pretty fucking thin ice there yourself, pal.
So, Jesus was walking along and some guys came along and one started to bully him, they yelled “hey Jesus, walk the plank” and Jesus being the nice guy that he was, was like, “ok, sweet” He not only picked up one plank, but a second, in reaction to this the bully was thinking “ok showoff, I asked you to walk the plank, not two planks”. Jesus continued walking and suddenly ran into this guy with a beard. The bearded guy runs up to Jesus with an excited look on his face and yells “hey Jesus! My name is Noah. I’m building this sweet ship and those planks would work perfectly, you think you could be a pal and bring those over? There is a major tsunami coming and we need to put a mad rush on this ship. All these animals will not leave me alone”. Just then, Moses pops out of a bush and yells “fuck that! I have to walk in this desert for a while, there better not be a tsunami on the way”. Amidst all this commotion, Godzilla and a couple t-rex were having a major battle. Mothra was flying into shit and causing a huge mess. So, Jesus, Moses, and Noah skip over to the ship and they all attach the final two planks and the ship is done. High fives ensue and Jesus puts on his jet pack and starts to fly away. At the last minute, he turns and with a twinkle in his eye he says “see you guys next time”.
So you think it’s you who got the comments to this point? Just as I said, you’re deluded. But hey, if you want to take responsibility for a thread that made my eyes glaze over with boredom, then be my guest.
As a Christian, we don’t live by the old testament. We live by the new testament. We teach loving and forgiveness. Not killing ppl because they don’t live by the laws of God. Get your facts right before you pass judgement. Btw you’re not supposed to do that as well. So we get to throw stones at you too. Remember Jesus loves you no matter what. He forgives you. Luke 17:4